[What Came Before]

I knew that Moenghus had followers among the Cish much like Kellhus did with his "little Dunyani" when he journeyed south, but what/how did Moenghus achieve godhood at Shimeh/Kyudea, and what parallel do we get if Kellhus does so in Dagliash?

You know, you just got me starting to wonder if Meppa could be Moe, now this...

[What Came Before]

I have been absent from these forums for far too long!  Wow! Some really interesting discussion taking place across several topics.  I have some more free-time, so I'll do my best to catch up and keep up.

I really like the idea that Moënghus has more to add to the overall story.  I absolutely loved the dialogue between Kellhus and Moë, but I felt that Moë should have been more influential on the story as a whole.  Maybe he his, only time and TUC will tell. 

I've recently been reading the speculation on Meppa as well, but I do not believe Meppa is Moë, it seems too far fetched and Meppa would be quite old. 

I think the end of TUC will tie up several loose ends, but ultimately leave us hanging or introduce something we've never even considered. The third series, that shall not be named, is still to come as far as I know and I am assuming that is where we'll get full closure.

[What Came Before]

Lol. Athjeari - The Wind Has Teeth returns!

Wow. You know, we can continue that sorcery/linguistic conversation we started some five years ago: It's actually topical in the Cishaurim[/b] thread right now.

Did you ever finish that rhetoric paper on PON?

[What Came Before]

I've recently been reading the speculation on Meppa as well, but I do not believe Meppa is Moë, it seems too far fetched and Meppa would be quite old. 

Welcome back, Athjeäri.
Not that I subscribe, but longevity is one of the benefits of Nonman heritage.

[What Came Before]

I have this vision of Yatwer incarnating in her true, demonic/goddess form, and Meppa ne Moe shivving her while she makes ready to devour Mimara.  Booyah, the gods just got flanked!

A boy can dream.

[What Came Before]

Good to be back, thanks folks.

I did finish my rhetorical paper on PON, it was actually my MA thesis and a beast of a project. I'd be interested to continue our discussion, Madness, but I can't for the life of me remember where we left off.  I posted on the Cishaurim thread, so maybe you can reply to my post and refresh my memory...(makes me feel kinda like a Nonman...I remember...I remember...)

I can't see the very distant Nonmen heritage playing a factor in Moë (or even Kellhus) but it's a possibility.  Meppa is an interesting character, but I think it more likely that he is a machination of Moë and not Moë himself.   Either that, or he is just the last Cish and is significant in that regard.

I'm honestly also really curious about the WLW.  That man obviously has a much larger role to play in the story as well.

[What Came Before]

Actually, I recently found the original thread, Athjeari - Sovin Nai (aengelas here) has reopened a read-only version of the Three-Seas so we could mine it for speculative fodder for the Second Apocalypse - you know, old members quoting Cu'jara Cinmoi and such.

Also, on that note - I'll have to track it down - but there's a quote been posted about Nonmen blood coming to fore in Aspect-Emperor.

Lol, I'm sure there's much for you to explore.

I knew that Moenghus had followers among the Cish much like Kellhus did with his "little Dunyani" when he journeyed south, but what/how did Moenghus achieve godhood at Shimeh/Kyudea, and what parallel do we get if Kellhus does so in Dagliash?

You know, you just got me starting to wonder if Meppa could be Moe, now this...

Sorry, Willem, missed this before. My Nerdanel goes like this:

Moenghus commanded a Sect of Cishaurim (we could probably suggest that he actually reinterpreted the kipfa’aifan - Witness of Fane - like Kellhus does the Tractate). If reinterpreting Belief, reinterprets the Outside (and this really grew out of an old forum theory that Belief was pervasive - really providing the Gods with power. If no one believes, no God exists, etc), then Moenghus/Kellhus cultivated new realms of the Outside while their are alive.

Inri Sejenus apparently really ascends at Kyudea, not Shimeh - so the division between reality is already malleable there. Moenghus dies while all the Cishaurim die but in a sense, they die defending him, their spiritual leader, and their spiritual teachings.

Then there's the reaching towards your God, or the ancestral spaces of the Outside, segues.

[Cüréthañ]

*Curethan uses resurrection.*

My theories on what is to come change from day to day.  I'm more comfortable speculating on interpretations of the consistent world building and the possibilities of what has come before.

Just for laughs though, I'll attempt to amuse with some predictions.  Interested in what others think might happen if anyone else wants to add some lengthy post of hogwash.

In Momemn, I think it's Esme and Meppa vs Psatma and the WLW.  I'm thinking Fanayal or Kelmomas might be the 'emperor' that the WLW kills.  Fanayal has actually been anointed by Kellhus, Ajokli or Gilgaol.  Without any reason to guess one way or another, I can't guess further at his role but I think he will die one way or another.  Meppa to somehow save Esme from WLW - he will lose his shit when they meet.  Malowebi may be the key to getting Meppa and Esme united against Psatma/Yatwer - I think he will remind Esme of Akka.  The new empire is def screwed though.  Only Malowebi and Esme survive.

Sorweel and co will find Ishterebinth largely empty and the remaining intact will be ignorant of the supposed deal with Kellhus.  Consult agents (who have intercepted Kellhus' previous attempts at contact) will try to kill them.  Sorweel will be revealed as Yatwer's pawn and may convince the remaining intact to sacrifice themselves in this final conflict. 

The ordeal will founder at Dagliash.  Some type of elaborate double cross with the nonmen who are allied with the consult. Kellhus has anticipated it and fakes his death and heads to Golgotteroth, possibly with the remnants of the Mandate and some of the Swayali (the destruction of the Mandate's army was a deliberate sacrifice to convince the Consult they are spent).  The Ordeal will be besieged at Dagliash, subsisting on Sranc meat and fanatacism.  Lead by Proyas (who knows Kellhus isn't dead) they will hold out, keeping the consult busy.  Kayutas will be key to stopping the skin spies from infiltrating.

Akka and Mimara fart around amongst the ruins of Ishual.  His dreams worsen and convincing him that the no-god is about to rise again.  He realizes that their child will be the first stillborn when Mog rises.  Kellhus turns up and Akka lays aside his quest for vengeance.  They head to Golgotteroth.

Whatever happens there, happens off screen.  The ordeal is almost destroyed, Sorweel and the intact turn up but can only slow the inevitable.  They feel the Mog arise in Golgotteroth.   Dragons turn up at Dagliash, the sranc start to scream 'WHAT DO YOU SEE' etc.  All is lost...

BOOM!  Golgotteroth explodes on the horizon.  The whole world becomes anarcane ground.  The hundred are banished, sorcery no longer works.  Proyas and Sorweel survive.  They find Akka's body clutching a new born baby, Kellhus nearby.  Sorweel kills Kellhus who seems happy to die.

[Wilshire]

Wow that was elaborate. Good job lol.

So in this ending, the Consult 'win', the world is shut... What happens to the No-God? He just swirls around Golgotterath or something?
Also, is the baby alive?

[Madness]

Lol nah, I think in Curethan's version, Kellhus, Achamian, and Mimara 'win' but we don't get to know how they did it, they just destroy the No-God and the Ark somehow, close the world, which cancels sorcery, and voila, pre-modern scientific world [where Gods and Demon and forces outside human control are negated, leaving humans the rule of the earth.

[Wilshire]

I must have missed the subtext

[Cüréthañ]

Yep, baby is alive.  It's the focus of TSTMNBN (Leto analogue). Offscreen happenings because I think the ending will be very ambiguous. 
The consult kind of achieve their objectives, but the no-god is subverted or destroyed.  Maybe it turns out they were being used by the solitary god to screw/reabsorb the hundred and stop the non-men from drilling holes in reality.

No one else is game to entertain?

[locke]

No one else is game to entertain?

I am, so long as we assume Mimara is Achamian's daughter, and he refuses to think about it just like he refuses to think about how he caused Inrau to be damned...

[Cüréthañ]

Sure buddy.  Pile on the revelations!
Just tell us what happens to each of the four groups.  If your not sure how shit should play out, make it happen off camera.

[Madness]

Yep, baby is alive.  It's the focus of TSTMNBN (Leto analogue).

Honestly, I'll be pissed if another fucking baby grows up to participate in TSTSNBN and so bridge the gap between series (not really, I actually kind of like it but gall (in the style South Park's Randy)). Achamian just won't survive that long without a serious supply of Burnt Nonmen or the Consult treatment and I don't want the old man to turn to the dark side (even if they are later revealed to be objectively correct and morally righteous) .