[Madness]

What Happens If China Makes First Contact? - with commentary by Liu Cixin, the author of The Three-Body Problem.

[TaoHorror]

It's screwing with us Americans big time, but it's time to accept there's another power who will make massive contributions to civilization beyond our country. Of course, many other countries are contributing awesome stuff every day, but Americans feel we're the overall leader of world progress. It simply is not a big deal ( in the sense it's a detriment to America ) if China "hears" first and whats more, it's a contribution to humanity that they've built this thing. Its high time for America to recede our paranoia of others encroaching on our self-perceived world dominance and welcome and cherish other nations' contributions

[Madness]

You had your high ground. It was a good 243 years.

[BeardFisher-King]

Liu's "dark-forest" strategy for optimizing civilizational survival is beyond interesting. "Hide well, cleanse well." It's the opposite of shouting "Hey, we're here!" to the universe.

[jamesA01]

The problem is that it wouldn't be enough to wake the west up from its senility. People in the west have convinced themselves that China is about to have a liberal democratic revolution, anyday now, because people always chose FREEDOM! over material prosperity. That's the kind of delusion winning on the level that the west won from 89-2000 gets you.


https://www.unz.com/article/how-can-western-capitalism-beat-this/?highlight=china

"In June, 2017, an instructive meeting took place between California Governor Jerry Brown and Chinese President Xi Jinping. While talking about climate change, the topic of high speed trains (HST) came up. Governor Brown supposedly lamented that his state has not been able to build even one puny HST line, since his governor-father began pushing for it back in the 1950s.

▲▼Why? While China is zeroing in on 30,000km of HST track, more than the rest of the world combined, along with hundreds of architecturally inspiring train stations to serve them, California has 2,000 lawsuits fighting its proposal. Why? Greedy capitalists and their purchased government employees and representatives are fighting each other for the loot, like cannibals in a kill pit of corruption, while selfish citizens are putting their individual interests ahead of the greater good. The latter is called NIMBY, Not in My Backyard."

No matter how biased and hyperbolic that essay is, the basic reality its referring to is legit.

Let them have it. If Trump was our ambassador they'd genocide our species out of mercy.

[BeardFisher-King]

No matter how biased and hyperbolic that essay is, the basic reality its referring to is legit.

Glad you recognize the bias and hyperbole. The author credits Mao, btw, for laying the "bedrock" for this wondrous society.

It's all about breaking eggs and making omelettes.

[jamesA01]

Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.

[BeardFisher-King]

Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.

If "morality has nothing to do with it", then why bring up America's moral failings?

[TaoHorror]

Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.

If "morality has nothing to do with it", then why bring up America's moral failings?

You're being kind there, Beard - more like America's criminal history. And I love America, some great things about living here, but our violent/criminal history is awful

[BeardFisher-King]

Morality has nothing to do with it, and America has its own history of genocide and mass slaughter.

If "morality has nothing to do with it", then why bring up America's moral failings?

You're being kind there, Beard - more like America's criminal history. And I love America, some great things about living here, but our violent/criminal history is awful

As is every nation's. I don't think America's history is uniquely evil. It was settled by colonists, who conflicted with the natives, who undoubtedly conflicted with those on the scene before them.

Mao's revolution, on the other hand, was "more", as Kellhus might have said.

To repeat, Liu's theory of "dark-forest strategy" puts an extremely interesting spin on first-contact issues.

[Francis Buck]

Oooh this is awesome. Three-Body Problem rivals Blindsight as one of my favorite SF novels ever and also one of the most enlightening/frightening explorations of how alien contact could go south in ways totally unexpected and unrelated to "aliens are bad and just wanna kill everybody". In fact Three-Body Problem maybe even more-so than Blindsight, as the issues potentially stemming from relativity are ones that are basically inevitable if mankind is ever to colonize interstellar space. Don't even need the aliens for shit to get real hairy right off the bat.

[BeardFisher-King]

Oooh this is awesome. Three-Body Problem rivals Blindsight as one of my favorite SF novels ever and also one of the most enlightening/frightening explorations of how alien contact could go south in ways totally unexpected and unrelated to "aliens are bad and just wanna kill everybody". In fact Three-Body Problem maybe even more-so than Blindsight, as the issues potentially stemming from relativity are ones that are basically inevitable if mankind is ever to colonize interstellar space. Don't even need the aliens for shit to get real hairy right off the bat.

Hey, FB, how's it going? Have you read the entire Three Body trilogy?

[TLEILAXU]

Isn't the premise in that series something like "guys our own solar system sucks so we invade yours, gl hf phaggots lol we also hijacked your technological development" ? Is it worth reading?

[BeardFisher-King]

Isn't the premise in that series something like "guys our own solar system sucks so we invade yours, gl hf phaggots lol we also hijacked your technological development" ? Is it worth reading?

It's worth reading, yes:

1) For the wild speculative physics.
2) For the "dark-forest strategy" of multiple interstellar civilizations.
3) There are also some great characters. 
"Da Shi", a Chinese detective, is awesome.

[MSJ]

Isn't the premise in that series something like "guys our own solar system sucks so we invade yours, gl hf phaggots lol we also hijacked your technological development" ? Is it worth reading?

No, its more like our planet is dying and dude, we want yours. The first book is good, but imho, has a lot of pacing issues. I haven't got to Dark Forest, but I will. I'm intrigued enough to finish the series. After Malazan, and reading it straight through, I have a hard time reading a series all at once. I tend to read a few series at a time.

[EDIT Madness: Quote tag.]