[Cüréthañ]

Nah, I have been getting way too much cognitive dissonance from trying to understand various perspectives here, with the resulting frustration leading me to make obnoxious posts as above.

Bakker's deliberately ambiguous style is probably as much to blame as my own stupidity for my difficulties, but that's whatever.

I don't feel as though I'm  adding any value to the discussions here, so I'm out.

Sorry for the thread derail, should've kept my mouth shut and left graciously.

[MSJ]

You really think the Mutilated let an Anasûrimbor (even an eight year old one) run around the heart of the Ark doing whatever he wants? Wow.

No, he didn't wonder around doing as he pleaded. He was brought by a skin spy to the GR.

[TaoHorror]

1. TUC imo = Fantastic work Scott, bravo.

So your enthusiasm\talk with the author was a lie?

[Cüréthañ]

1. TUC imo = Fantastic work Scott, bravo.

So your enthusiasm\talk with the author was a lie?

Haha, no.

Bakker's ambiguity makes me want to discuss his stuff. The problem is my inability to effectively communicate with others.

Ergo, I should avoid his work in order to avoid my reaction in order to avoid these situations.

[TaoHorror]

Look, Curethan - I'm sure I speak for everyone on this forum without exception - we all want diverse views. Nobody has kicked me out yet and if there were a poll, my posts would probably win the award for the most inane posts ( I once posted I thought PON was a romance novel with its central thesis being love - I still think that idea has legs  ).

Would love for you to stay, want everyone to stay. If your point is you don't want to ruffle feathers - well, its plausibly impossible for anyone to accomplish that via text/email/blog posts since conversational written word alone fails to denote emotion, humor and friendly sarcasm. Not to insult you, but I found nothing of what you posted to be immature, incorrect, insulting, in bad taste or form, etc. It could be worse, you could be ignored -
 most of my posts go unanswered or maybe if I'm lucky I get 1 response. Doesn't phase me a bit, there's bound to be a stupid redneck to come along and like the books FOR the sexual depravity and violence and not in spite of it . I finished the 3rd book thinking the Inchoroi and the Non-men were the same "people", only to come here and find out they're not and one of them were aliens ( in my defense, Inchoroi and Ishroi are very similar "alien" terminology among the mass bombardment of hard to pronounce language ). Everything is described as art, so I took burning ark from the skies as some magical evil vehicle raising hell on it's way in ... not a spaceship ( in a fantasy novel ) crashing into the planet. The apparently very patient souls on this forum set me straight and I've grown to love this work all the more because of it.

Maybe I'm simply not a sensitive person, maybe completely misunderstand your position, but you've posted  700+ times over the years and it would be a waste to dismiss that and we would be lessor without you.

Reconsider.

Edit: and besides, you have a cool name and picture

[Duskweaver]

It's become rather clear to me that my interpretation of these books so often runs against consensus that I must be deluding myself as to what I am reading.

Screw consensus. Anyway, I at least agree with you that Kelmomas has already spoken with the Mutilated before his father arrived.

[Sausuna]

It's become rather clear to me that my interpretation of these books so often runs against consensus that I must be deluding myself as to what I am reading.

Screw consensus. Anyway, I at least agree with you that Kelmomas has already spoken with the Mutilated before his father arrived.

Screw consensus? Clearly you've never experienced the perils of unchecked paradox before.

[TaoHorror]

This thread was one of my favorites and Wilshire referenced it for me today, so I'm resurrecting it ( forget the term, something about zombies ). That and many of the cool posters on this thread don't appear to be posting any more - come back! We haven't figured out The Consult's intentions yet ...

[Nichamian]

Hello all...
I note that no one has posted on this thread in over a year but I just finished reading it and feel the urge to comment, despite everyone seeming to have moved on.

I had totally missed the scene with the skin-spy and Kelmomas, I had assumed it was Crabbicus who was being referred to. As a result I had no idea how Kelmomas arrived in the Golden Room and had put it down to ‘because eternity’. This titbit will hopefully inform my next reread.

Regarding Bakkers ‘Oar’ reference, I had assumed that to be the Upright Horn, as it hums and makes an enormous racket, which to me signified System Resumption.

I hope I’m not guilty of flogging a dead horse. I’ve just arrived late to the party.

Happy Slogging, lads.

[Wilshire]

No such thing as a dead horse on the slog. Keep flogging.

The scene with Kelmomas is a small one, easily missed. Bakker likes to hide things with confusion, especially with confusion of the POV character. Little Kel sees Esmi who takes him to the Arc.

I dont recall the Oar reference, but  I agree with the interpretation. I assume TNG takes some kind of interaction with the Arc to function, so it 'turning on' coincidentally with Resumptions makes sense.

Also, welcome to the after party .

[H]

Regarding Bakkers ‘Oar’ reference, I had assumed that to be the Upright Horn, as it hums and makes an enormous racket, which to me signified System Resumption.

I searched the entire series and I could not find a reference to an "oar" in relation to the Ark.  So, I'm genuinely unsure what people are trying to construe that as.

[Nichamian]

I was sort of adding together and dividing by two so I’m open to being wrong, especially since I can’t show my working (I’m working and posting during cigarette breaks).
 I think someone mentioned upthread that the horns were referred to as the oars, and with Bakker’s quote that the ‘oar rattled to life’ or some such it felt like the upright horn roaring could have been that. I’m relying on memory so I’m prepared to be wrong ☺️
I’m just glad I’ve finally posted something. I’ve been lurking so long it’s nice to actually get into things, even superficially. The knowledge and penetration displayed on the board as a whole is both hugely gratifying (I’d have given up on the series without all your collective insight) but also fairly intimidating to join.
A massive thanks to you all for keeping the fire burning!

[H]

I was sort of adding together and dividing by two so I’m open to being wrong, especially since I can’t show my working (I’m working and posting during cigarette breaks).
 I think someone mentioned upthread that the horns were referred to as the oars, and with Bakker’s quote that the ‘oar rattled to life’ or some such it felt like the upright horn roaring could have been that. I’m relying on memory so I’m prepared to be wrong ☺️
I’m just glad I’ve finally posted something. I’ve been lurking so long it’s nice to actually get into things, even superficially. The knowledge and penetration displayed on the board as a whole is both hugely gratifying (I’d have given up on the series without all your collective insight) but also fairly intimidating to join.
A massive thanks to you all for keeping the fire burning!

Oh, ok.  Yeah, I mean the Glossary explicitly states that the Horns are the Oars:

Horns of Golgotterath—One of many epithets given to the two Oars of Ark, the portions of the Incû-Holoinas remaining exposed.

.

And, you should not really be too enamoured by our collective wisdom, haha.  We are often quite deluded and incorrect individually.  It's only all together we might have a clue...

[Wilshire]

keeping the fire burning

We are the keepers of the inverse fire, though we know not what it means.

Oh, and as is always the case, please comment on threads and posts regardless of when the last active post was. Or, make your own new ones. Both good .

[Nichamian]

Cracking stuff!
I wonder if the destruction of the Canted Horn (I’ve always struggled to visualise that) and what seems to read as the gutting of the Upright Horn (Kellus/Ajokli stamping, which I read as causing the collapse on Skuthula and Serwa) has an adverse effect on the efficacy of the NG... meh, it’s strangely tempting to try and guess, despite the futility.