[Madness]

Subject heading as per Woden.

Discussing the attack in Barcelona (and tangentially those preceding it).

[Wilshire]

So, whats WWIII, and whats WWIV?

Also, what distinguishes a War and a World War?

[Madness]

WWIII is the Cold War for me.

We are actually in WWIV. Not an open traditional conflict, but a fucking war after all.
It is a war. And it has been for centuries, guerrilla is not war? Yes, it is. And terrorism is a elaborate lowcost form of guerrilla.

[Woden]

Ok, here my confusing thoughts about the matter:

A WW implies for me lots of contenders.

Simplifying:

The WW3 was West and satellites vs USSR and satellites. So IMHO it was a WW.
I t was a cold war, but it had some damn hot episodes - Korea, Vietnam, Afganistan, etc.

The WW4 it started just when the 3 ended with the dissolution of USSR. It is another kind of war, but we had two wars in Irak, another in Afganistan, and then lots of internal conflicts in Libia, Siria, Egypt, Yemen. And terrorists attacks everywhere.
Maybe it is not a proper WW like the others (that had clear contenders) but a readjustment of the balance that was broken with the end of Cold War. In any case it is a fucking nightmare.

[Wilshire]

To me having it broadly defined as such makes it meaningless.

Every conflict is very nearly a world war. Nothing happens in a vacuum, everything is connected. Genocide in africa affects gun production in the US.

WW-Infinite. (did the romans have a symbol to represent infinite?)

Terrorism is no different than any other crime involving people killing people. We don't call every murderer a war criminal, because war is a specific defined state. If I drove my car into a crowd, I'd just be a murderer, but if I do it while screaming 'praise jesus' I'm a religious fanatical terrorist? Bah. Just people killing people, no need to make every criminal a hero of some cause, a martyr for some belief.

[Woden]

Yes, maybe. But if you ask them, they will tell you that they are soldiers (holy fucking soldiers) and that they are fighting a war, a holy one.

Von Clausewitz said that "all war presupposes human weakness and seeks to exploit it", and these fucking bastards are doing exactly this. They use fear and terror (who are sons of Ares, by the way) to achieve their goals (destroy their enemy and impose their "peace"). They are not common criminals, they are more (or less) and the have not to be treated only like criminal scum, and obviously they don't deserve our pity, it is not our fucking fault that they are terrorists (although some people tend to believe that).

[MSJ]

The screwed up thing about terrorism is, how exactly do you fight it? I mean, I know some are for just bombing every Islamic country and what not, but that's too many innocents for my liking. I don't understand Islam as well as I should. I've watched videos were they say that it is Holy and righteous for a Muslim to lie to your face and play dirty behind your back, there is name for it,  though I don't know what. I've met many very nice human beings that are Muslim and I don't know what to think about that piece of info, or, if it's even true.

There is no clear cut and easy way to fight terrorism, which is what frustrates so many people. Its like we gotta wait for them to mess up or blow up something before you can find out "who" you are even fighting.

I seen a commercial for a show on History Channel about it and the guy said, "If you think we are even close to seeing the worse of it, your kidding yourself.". So, it's a hard enemy to chase down and one that's not going anywhere.

ETA: the word is Tiqaya and it's just a glance at Wiki and it says only allowed to use when under serious duress and the right-wing America use it as a way to spread fear of Islam. It was a right-wing friend on Facebook who posted the video...

[Woden]

It is a great problem indeed and I think that there is no good solutions at all.
All that the politicians had tried have not worked. And the people are growing tired of the political correctness that have made the problem worse - then Trump, LePen, Brexit, etc.
Anyway we are screwed.

[Redeagl]

The screwed up thing about terrorism is, how exactly do you fight it? I mean, I know some are for just bombing every Islamic country and what not, but that's too many innocents for my liking. I don't understand Islam as well as I should. I've watched videos were they say that it is Holy and righteous for a Muslim to lie to your face and play dirty behind your back, there is name for it,  though I don't know what. I've met many very nice human beings that are Muslim and I don't know what to think about that piece of info, or, if it's even true.

There is no clear cut and easy way to fight terrorism, which is what frustrates so many people. Its like we gotta wait for them to mess up or blow up something before you can find out "who" you are even fighting.

I seen a commercial for a show on History Channel about it and the guy said, "If you think we are even close to seeing the worse of it, your kidding yourself.". So, it's a hard enemy to chase down and one that's not going anywhere.

ETA: the word is Tiqaya and it's just a glance at Wiki and it says only allowed to use when under serious duress and the right-wing America use it as a way to spread fear of Islam. It was a right-wing friend on Facebook who posted the video...

Lmao.

About Spain: Damn. Just... Damn.

It is a great problem indeed and I think that there is no good solutions at all.
All that the politicians had tried have not worked. And the people are growing tired of the political correctness that have made the problem worse - then Trump, LePen, Brexit, etc.
Anyway we are screwed.

Fighting ISIS. That's the solution. These people are cowards, just like the Nazis. Hit at THEIR land, hit hard and it is done. These fuckers kill everybody they can kill. It's about time. As long as you don't get fully retarded like Putin ( Bombs Syrian cities to "kill terrorists " , kills 1000 innocents and 2 terrorists. ) .Also Woden, I am sure that you know that LePen is irrelevant now .

[Redeagl]

And hey, did I sleep through a World War or what?

[Woden]

I agree that anihilate these fuckers is the only way. But it is not enough, who is behind them? who has given (and is giving) them money and support? This Unholy Consult has to be destroyed too.
But some of them are like skin-spies among us and pretend to be friends, etc. How to deal with them?


LePen is irrelevant only due to the french political system, she had a bunch of voters in first and second rounds, but fortunately this is not enough. Other countries do not have these counterweights and could end in the hands of demagogs (Spain included, here we would be so retards to have some kind of imitators of venezuelan communists, lol be praised).

[MSJ]

Redeagl, dont take only part of what I say and not the rest, thats unfair. I said I didn't even know if it's true and whether to believe at all. If its part of the religion, I am sure it's abused and used in the wrong way. As is done in all religions.

Hey, I don't lose any sleep over terrorism, Im not afraid of Muslims, I have/had Muslims as true friends and neighbors. Im not alt-right and spreading propaganda, but, as I said I am not at all familiar enough with the religion to know what is true and what isnt. There is a divide between Islam and the West, that I know for certain. Or, we wouldn't be here having this talk.

[MSJ]

Fighting ISIS. That's the solution. These people are cowards, just like the Nazis. Hit at THEIR land, hit hard and it is done. These fuckers kill everybody they can kill. It's about time. As long as you don't get fully retarded like Putin ( Bombs Syrian cities to "kill terrorists " , kills 1000 innocents and 2 terrorists. ) .Also Woden, I am sure that you know that LePen is irrelevant now .

I think that's a little too easy for it to be the solution. Terrorism is everywhere, and extremism is an idea, not a people. You can't pinpoint it and wipe it out. And, the last thing I would want to do if it was my decision, is create more enemies. Its why,  "just bomb them" isnt gonna work.

[Redeagl]

Redeagl, dont take only part of what I say and not the rest, thats unfair. I said I didn't even know if it's true and whether to believe at all. If its part of the religion, I am sure it's abused and used in the wrong way. As is done in all religions.

Hey, I don't lose any sleep over terrorism, Im not afraid of Muslims, I have/had Muslims as true friends and neighbors. Im not alt-right and spreading propaganda, but, as I said I am not at all familiar enough with the religion to know what is true and what isnt. There is a divide between Islam and the West, that I know for certain. Or, we wouldn't be here having this talk.

MSJ, I was laughing at the ignorance of whoever the person who said that. Not you   I read your full comment.

About the underlined part: It's far more complicated than that. And most of it doesn't have much to do with the religion. While we are all calling ISIS extremists and all, 99.99999% of their actions are condemned already by Islam.Which leads us to the absence of education, education needs money.That's the heart of the problem.The political state of the Middle-East post WWII wasn't pretty. And it still is. Except the rich gulf countries, most people here are poorer than minimum wage workers in the States for example. Corruption and Tyranny are the only rulers. And of course, why not use religion to benefit you along the way?  And like Woden says, the Skin Spies.... To be honest, I don't see any thing good happening in the more poor, war torn middle eastern countries ( From which Terrorists come from)  in the near future. For now, any country with a good military must fight ISIS, not bitch about it on Twitter. You can't fight an idea with a gun, but you can fight terrorists with it, then you can see about fighting the ISIS and right wingers version of Islam.

[MSJ]

MSJ, I was laughing at the ignorance of whoever the person who said that. Not you   I read your full comment.

Okay, I gotcha.