[TLEILAXU]

It has to be because of Ajokli's divine influence.

[SmilerLoki]

It has to be because of Ajokli's divine influence.

That doesn't seem immediately consistent with Bakker's answers. He came as close as to tell us that it's safe to suppose the Visions Kellhus experiences are coming from Ajokli, but he refused to even take questions about the haloes.

[Madness]

And that also wouldn't explain Mimara's haloes or the tapestry depicting her (not the Ekkinu) - which according to the AMA, Kellhus didn't know about.

I've brought it up a number of times over the years but one of my favorite profs taught a course on religious art during certain periods and haloes absolutely have rules regarding depiction, the shapes, the colours, etc, etc, which I'm sure Bakker is aware of given his riffing on the bible.

[SmilerLoki]

And that also wouldn't explain Mimara's haloes

I'm actually interested in those, since for the life of me I can't remember her explicitly having Kellhus-type haloes.

If someone would direct me to the instances of Mimara being depicted with haloes, I would be very grateful.

[Madness]

The main one is in WLW in the Mop when she sees herself with the Eye in the pond fully pregnant, with a shaved head (this was before she shaves it in her attempt to "remind" Nil'giccas), and silver haloes.

I also believe Mimara sees them in a reflection of a shield when the Imperial functionaries wash and dress her in the Umbilicus on Angongorea in TUC.

Then Kelmomas and Mimara both comment on the tapestry in TUC, which Esmenet is using as a blanket when Mimara shows up and Kelmomas sees a second time on the ground at the Last Whelming... I don't know if either of those reference her haloes.

[SmilerLoki]

The main one is in WLW in the Mop when she sees herself with the Eye in the pond fully pregnant, with a shaved head (this was before she shaves it in her attempt to "remind" Nil'giccas), and silver haloes.

Thank you!

This one I remember, and I took it as just her seeing her salvation. This is also the workings of the Eye, while Kelhuss's haloes are visible to people who are not armed with supernatural powers.

I just re-read the moment in the Umbilicus, and it also has the Eye open. Mimara sees "the blinding glare of holiness" when she looks in the shield used as a mirror.

I don't think it's at all clear that we should connect those events to Kelhuss's haloes.

On the topic of the tapestry I'm not yet prepared to comment. I will concede, though, that in my first reading I just took it as a coincidence, since the imagery of pregnant women embodying holiness is so commonplace in our culture.

[EDIT] It's also important to note the way Mimara sees Esmenet's holiness and compare the wording to the moment with the shield-mirror in the same scene:

There she stands before her, Anasûrimbor Esmenet, the Blessed Empress of the Three Seas. Haggard. Palace-pale. A rose-silk sheet clutched to her breast ...
Dark with the writhing, straining shadows of countless carnal transgressions.
Glowing with the promise of paradise.

[Madness]

I don't think it's at all clear that we should connect those events to Kelhuss's haloes.

Sure but haloes .

On the topic of the tapestry I'm not yet prepared to comment. I will concede, though, that in my first reading I just took it as a coincidence, since the imagery of pregnant women embodying holiness is so commonplace in our culture.

True enough but Mimara recognizes it as herself as she sees herself through the Eye in the Mop as I recall.

[SmilerLoki]

True enough but Mimara recognizes it as herself as she sees herself through the Eye in the Mop as I recall.

She recognizes the scene from her memory, but she describes the person depicted as "a pregnant woman" and "blessed".

The tapestry should mean something, though.

[MSJ]

It does mean something that's for sure. I'd say a prophecy of some sort. But, as per usual Bakker, I doubt we'll ever get any explanation at all. I asked him in the Q&A if Kellhus knew of the tapestry, his answer was no.

If a picture depicts the scene when she sees herself with Haloes in the Mop...there has to be significance there. What? Your guess is as good as any.

Here's mine. She is the holiest person alive and literally THE GOD walking and the exact opposite of the No-God. And, will in fact negate the No-God. That tapestry is a picture of the savior of the world.

[SmilerLoki]

Kellhus at some point expressed a very low opinion of the God of Gods, which throws me off noticeably. Not in the sense that I'm perturbed by it, but in the sense of making the subject much murkier than it was before. And I'm not even sure Kellhus should be taken seriously there.

[MSJ]

Kellhus at some point expressed a very low opinion of the God of Gods, which throws me off noticeably. Not in the sense that I'm perturbed by it, but in the sense of making the subject much murkier than it was before. And I'm not even sure Kellhus should be taken seriously there.

To your point, I'm always unsure that when Kellhus talks of the God of Gods he just is talking about the 100. All, I've ever taking seriously that he's said about the God of Gods, is that he sleeps. Quite frankly, I think all his commentary TGO onwards is all about the 100.

[SmilerLoki]

To your point, I'm always unsure that when Kellhus talks of the God of Gods he just is talking about the 100. All, I've ever taking seriously that he's said about the God of Gods, is that he sleeps. Quite frankly, I think all his commentary TGO onwards is all about the 100.

I also get that impression, yes.

P.S.

Smoker Loki

Nice!

[MSJ]

My autocorrect and me don't get along. But that was nice!

[Khaine]

- I don't think so because on a similar note Bakker confirmed at ZDC that Kellhus levitating without the Mark in TUC was sorcery and I don't know why he'd admit that and not the haloes.

Which part are you referring to?

I thought that was a hologram of Kellhus prepared by the Consult to distract the Ordeal while they were dealing with Kellhus (ie trying to convert him to their cause).

Or am I talking another incident?

Also how can sorcery leave no mark? Unless of course Kellhus also unlocked the secrets of Psukhe?

The more questions we ask, the more question we get!

PS: Is Bakker a fan of Lynch and Twin Peaks by any chance? Because his writing has certain Lynchian traits, if I can use the term.

[H]

- I don't think so because on a similar note Bakker confirmed at ZDC that Kellhus levitating without the Mark in TUC was sorcery and I don't know why he'd admit that and not the haloes.

Which part are you referring to?

I thought that was a hologram of Kellhus prepared by the Consult to distract the Ordeal while they were dealing with Kellhus (ie trying to convert him to their cause).

Or am I talking another incident?

Also how can sorcery leave no mark? Unless of course Kellhus also unlocked the secrets of Psukhe?

The more questions we ask, the more question we get!

It's the part where Sorweel tries to kill him for the last time.

I don't see why Kellhus gaining some knowledge of the Psûhke would be far-fetched though.

Also, I feel there is a Bakker quote somewhere in which he says that the "halos" are not sorcerous.  Also, doesn't Serwë see the Halos on the skin-spy impersonating Kellhus?  Pretty clear indication that they are user-generated, we thought back when...