[profgrape]

... not Moenghus, not Cnaiur or some soul mash-up of the two.  He was, as he states, a survivor of the sorcerous battle in Shimeh and took the name of the cant that led to his family's death.

Madness has convinced me that he is "the boy" from the end of TTT.  And if so, it seems pretty likely that he's also a tool of the Consult.  Perhaps unwittingly, but a tool just the same.

Given that he seems to be alive after the confrontation in Fanayal's tent, it seems likely that Kellhus has a use for him.  But what is it/

My crackpot is that Kellhus will somehow use him as a tool against the no-God.  Maybe he'll mind-fuck Meppa into a emotional tornado, line him up in front of the Sarcophagus and let him unleash the Water?

[Blackstone]

Meppa is described as being old. His Ketyai hair is described as gray in WLW. The boy would be like 28 years old or so. I don't think they can be the same person.

[Hirtius/Pansa]

Isn't he described as having snowy-white hair in WLW?—before he shaves obviously.  If he was the boy in TTT that would put him at about 32-36 in TAE.  Not old enough to have complete loss of hair pigmentation.

Edit: Exactly Blackstone! Thank you.  Took the words right out of my mouth.

[H]

I don't know, it's plausible that he had prematurely graying hair.  Sure, that would seem to be a strike against the theory, but I don't think it proves it wrong, per se.

Here's a question though, Meppa tells Fanayal that he doesn't remember who he was or where he came from.  But he tells Kellhus who he is, so he clearly lied to Fanayal.  Why?

[Hirtius/Pansa]

Well... I always read that exchange with Malowebi as about more metaphorical/abstract identity rather than personal identity.

 "The people call him Stonebreaker, they say that he was sent to us by the Solitary God."
"What do you say?"
"I say he was sent to me! I am the Solitary God's gift to his people."
"And what does he say?"
"Meppa? He does not know who he is."

Less about who he was in the past and more about what his role in the metaphysical chess game will be going forward.  But please, tinfoil away.

[profgrape]

He's described as:

His hair was as white as the peaks of the Atkondras, his skin nut brown.

We don't ever get evidence of his being "old".  Only that he has white hair.

[Blackstone]

I don't know, it's plausible that he had prematurely graying hair.  Sure, that would seem to be a strike against the theory, but I don't think it proves it wrong, per se.

No, it doesn't prove it wrong, but if there is evidence against and none for, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that he isn't the boy. And if all the Cishaurim were destroyed at Shimeh, then no one would be left to teach the boy the Psukhe. The most likely explanation is that Meppa, as a full fledged Cishaurim, somehow escaped.

Here's a question though, Meppa tells Fanayal that he doesn't remember who he was or where he came from.  But he tells Kellhus who he is, so he clearly lied to Fanayal.  Why?

That is an interesting question. I see what Hirtius/Pansa is saying, but it seems like the most basic interpretation is that Meppa lied to Fanayal.

Another question: Are we missing an obvious point? What cant is "Meppa?"

[Blackstone]

He's described as:

His hair was as white as the peaks of the Atkondras, his skin nut brown.

We don't ever get evidence of his being "old".  Only that he has white hair.

Generally, white hair in a Mediterranean man (which the Ketyai are meant to reflect) means they are old. This is still more like evidence against than evidence for Meppa being the boy.

[H]

Less about who he was in the past and more about what his role in the metaphysical chess game will be going forward.  But please, tinfoil away.

Good point.

He's described as:

His hair was as white as the peaks of the Atkondras, his skin nut brown.

We don't ever get evidence of his being "old".  Only that he has white hair.

True.  To me there is a difference between gray and white hair.  White would seem to indicate it wasn't age that caused it in my mind.

No, it doesn't prove it wrong, but if there is evidence against and none for, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that he isn't the boy. And if all the Cishaurim were destroyed at Shimeh, then no one would be left to teach the boy the Psukhe. The most likely explanation is that Meppa, as a full fledged Cishaurim, somehow escaped.

Yeah, I see that as highly plausible too.

Another question: Are we missing an obvious point? What cant is "Meppa?"

The air-sucking whoosh of the Meppa Cataract. Dozens of lesser Cishaurim vanished in gold-boiling torrents.

Some kind of heat vortex?

[Blackstone]

He's described as:

His hair was as white as the peaks of the Atkondras, his skin nut brown.

We don't ever get evidence of his being "old".  Only that he has white hair.

True.  To me there is a difference between gray and white hair.  White would seem to indicate it wasn't age that caused it in my mind.

I had to look it up to be sure, but IRL, white hair indicates greater age than gray hair. As people age their hair follicles stop producing pigment.

[H]

I had to look it up to be sure, but IRL, white hair indicates greater age than gray hair. As people age their hair follicles stop producing pigment.

Fair enough.  I still never got the sense that he was that old, so stress induced depigmentation was what I felt was more likely.

[profgrape]

No, it doesn't prove it wrong, but if there is evidence against and none for, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that he isn't the boy. And if all the Cishaurim were destroyed at Shimeh, then no one would be left to teach the boy the Psukhe. The most likely explanation is that Meppa, as a full fledged Cishaurim, somehow escaped.

I had a similar thought regarding the training; how could he learn the Psukhe without being taught by one of the Cishaurium?

The only thing I could come with (and it's thin, no doubt) is that he's an autodidact.  Consider this snippet from one of Scott's old interviews:

Prior to Fane, the Psukhe as an arcane art was unknown, though there are legendary hints and mythic innuendos of certain sightless individuals harnessing inexplicable powers in moments of extraordinary anguish.

Compared with Gnostic or Anagoic sorcery, the Psukhe seems more like the sort of thing someone can just stumble upon.  And Meppa's use of the Psukhe seems to be more as a blunt instrument than what Moenghus describes as "those aspects requiring subtlety."

[H]

Yeah, I can definitely see the plausibility in him having "awoken" the Water in him in the anguish of his family dying.  Indeed this could be what Aurang's "secret" to tell him was?  That he was one of the Few?

I don't know, we have such little information.  The better question might be about what happens to him now?

[Blackstone]

No, it doesn't prove it wrong, but if there is evidence against and none for, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that he isn't the boy. And if all the Cishaurim were destroyed at Shimeh, then no one would be left to teach the boy the Psukhe. The most likely explanation is that Meppa, as a full fledged Cishaurim, somehow escaped.

I had a similar thought regarding the training; how could he learn the Psukhe without being taught by one of the Cishaurium?

The only thing I could come with (and it's thin, no doubt) is that he's an autodidact.  Consider this snippet from one of Scott's old interviews:

Prior to Fane, the Psukhe as an arcane art was unknown, though there are legendary hints and mythic innuendos of certain sightless individuals harnessing inexplicable powers in moments of extraordinary anguish.

Compared with Gnostic or Anagoic sorcery, the Psukhe seems more like the sort of thing someone can just stumble upon.  And Meppa's use of the Psukhe seems to be more as a blunt instrument than what Moenghus describes as "those aspects requiring subtlety."

I'll admit that it's possible, and that it's possible that he's ~30 years old and went prematurely white, I'm just saying the most probable scenario is that Meppa is not the kid from the end of TTT and that he is quite old. Simply put, the last Cishaurim with a passion for revenge so deep that his Water seems boundless.

Yeah, I can definitely see the plausibility in him having "awoken" the Water in him in the anguish of his family dying.  Indeed this could be what Aurang's "secret" to tell him was?  That he was one of the Few?

I don't know, we have such little information.  The better question might be about what happens to him now?

I do agree that this is the better question

Edit - Aurang wanted to destroy the Cishaurim, so I don't think he'd help engineer the Last Cish.

[profgrape]

Edit - Aurang wanted to destroy the Cishaurim, so I don't think he'd help engineer the Last Cish.

Cribbing from Madness, the Consult wanted to destroy the Cish because they mistakenly thought the Water-bearers were unmasking the skin-spikes.  Once they discovered it was the Dunyain (and that Kellhus' father was among the Fanim), they might have changed their tune on eradicating the Cish.