[Wilshire]

She has the Seswatha homunculus, torture and compulsions wouldn't work on her. Her being dunyain certainly adds another layer... I wonder if Seswatha only comes out/helps when being pried for the gnosis.

Her using magic with the collar on turns on how the collar actually works. If it just makes the person feel pain, then being able to stop your brain/neurons/nerves from feeling pain, then it would be ineffectual.

[Madness]

Metagnosis trumps Gnostic artifact created by Emilidis. That was and remains my guess.

[Wilshire]

Emilidis may have been a metagnosi, given that no one else could match his creations...

[Madness]

Nah, he was just the best artificer of his time and place .

I'm not sure if the ARC elucidates more than the draft on this but tangenty segue: it's interesting to think of individual Nonmen Quya patronizing each of the "twelve" original Gnostic schools...

Who were the other Nonmen? And the other Schools, mind?

[Wilshire]

Yes, give the Artifacts, the Aporos, and the Gnosis, what other specialized schools might they have founded.

[Blackstone]

Yes, give the Artifacts, the Aporos, and the Gnosis, what other specialized schools might they have founded.

It makes me wonder if we will see any of them turn up. Perhaps the nonmen crossed into Eanna and taught the Gnosis to the last tribe of men.

[Wilshire]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

[H]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

Not that I can recall, but the fact that the Dolour effected them differently makes me think that The Tall were either a subspecies of Nonman or some kind of mutation (i.e. they were perhaps all related). 

It seems the Nonmen we're as homogeneous genetically speaking as we would probably have guessed, seeing how most of the old, old (like the Ferrymen, whatever his name was) we effected differently by immortality. 

[profgrape]

After my second and admittedly, more careful read, I noticed that Nin'Ciljaris refers to Yatwer as the "Fertility Principle".   As if the Nonmen regard Yatwer as an abstraction that explains the miraculous; wombs quicken and therefore, there must be a greater power behind it.   

This makes makes me think that the Nonmen more or less know exactly what's going on with the Gods.  And all the evidence points to their being terrified about it to the point where their goal, seeking Oblivion, is all about avoiding them.

[Garet Jax]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

If I recall correctly, I thought it was mentioned that there were some of the nonmen that were simply "affected differently" (my quotes).  The big guy was more prone to the violent outbursts, but he also retained more of his memory without having to perform atrocities to remember.  They were more concerned with worshiping the spaces in between rather than trying to remember.

It might be disappointing and an oversimplified answer, but, The Tall are all very old...  My thought was you would have already had to be ancient by the time of the fall to even have lived long enough to be one of The Tall in the current time setting. 

This might just be a thought I had which I applied as canon, but I was under the impression all of The Tall were Ishroi and not Quya, if that makes any difference.

[H]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

If I recall correctly, I thought it was mentioned that there were some of the nonmen that were simply "affected differently" (my quotes).  The big guy was more prone to the violent outbursts, but he also retained more of his memory without having to perform atrocities to remember.  They were more concerned with worshiping the spaces in between rather than trying to remember.

It might be disappointing and an oversimplified answer, but, The Tall are all very old...  My thought was you would have already had to be ancient by the time of the fall to even have lived long enough to be one of The Tall in the current time setting. 

This might just be a thought I had which I applied as canon, but I was under the impression all of The Tall were Ishroi and not Quya, if that makes any difference.

It could be that the The Tall were the "original" Nonmen, that they were the original Ishroi, and somehow the Nonmen we "always" see are actually the derivatives.  Could it be a reason why Cû'jara Cinmoi was so apt to take the Inchoroi up on the offer of immortality?  A chance to finally elevate himself and the rest of them above The Tall?

[Blackstone]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

My interpretation of it was that the Tall were all intact but had retreated from the world out of...I don't know...apathy? Oirunas (sp) immediately recognized his son.

I wonder why the nonmen heroes never stopped growing. I can only assume that after receiving the immortality treatment they stopped growing, elsewise Oirunas's armor wouldn't have fit after the thousands of years since he last put it on.

[Garet Jax]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

My interpretation of it was that the Tall were all intact but had retreated from the world out of...I don't know...apathy? Oirunas (sp) immediately recognized his son.

I could have sworn there was a direct description where it said (paraphrased): The Dolour affected them differently.  They did not lose their memories as much as the others, they simply were more prone to violent outbursts.

[H]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

My interpretation of it was that the Tall were all intact but had retreated from the world out of...I don't know...apathy? Oirunas (sp) immediately recognized his son.

I could have sworn there was a direct description where it said (paraphrased): The Dolour affected them differently.  They did not lose their memories as much as the others, they simply were more prone to violent outbursts.

Yeah. Page 321:

The Dolour affects them differently: their confusion is less profound, but their violent humours rule them more completely.  They come here because only the Tall can hope to survive the mad humours of the Tall.

[Blackstone]

I am maybe a little bit dissapointed that the few nonmen who are left intact are simply the youngest and least accomplished. I was hoping there would be come more clever mechanism that a few of them found to keep their sanity.
That said, I wonder why the big guy had any sanity at all. He seemed pretty rational for being as old as he was. BTW, was that ever explained, why some of the nonmen are giants?

My interpretation of it was that the Tall were all intact but had retreated from the world out of...I don't know...apathy? Oirunas (sp) immediately recognized his son.

I could have sworn there was a direct description where it said (paraphrased): The Dolour affected them differently.  They did not lose their memories as much as the others, they simply were more prone to violent outbursts.

Yeah. Page 321:

The Dolour affects them differently: their confusion is less profound, but their violent humours rule them more completely.  They come here because only the Tall can hope to survive the mad humours of the Tall.

Excellent! Thanks for looking that up, H.

So it sounds like the Tall may be intact enough to give it one last round with the Consult.

Does anyone suppose we are going to see Mekertirig in TUC? If Kellhus ran into him in TDTCB, then it seems like they should logically meet up again.