[H]

Well, Chief Toadies 1 and 2 can't have been the only ones who will fight to side with the Consult.

Most definitely.  Presumably the cadre of Quya that fought at Ishual were from Ishterebinth.  I doubt if the Lord of Swans was one of them, but maybe he was.  There had to be a least a couple handfuls that were though.

[locke]

pfah!

I had no impression that Serwe was going to sing sorcery.

but if she were, poison pin obviously refers to a good old "Math Thesis Point" from the False Sun, and since both the glamour about Golgotteranth and the Agonic Collar were both wrought by Emilidis, and both probably work on similar principles of deflection/redirection (which is why it has to be a circle, an Agonic Collar or an ouroborian circle) then therefore a maththesis point (a poison pin, a key!) directed at the collar ought to disable it just as the glamour was disabled.

So that's how she can probably get out collar if need be, most sorcerors either direct sorcery outward (which just causes them to always miss and hit themselves) or at the collar itself (which likewise just always misses and hits themselves) but a maththesis point would not be able to be redirected.

Kellhus would have derived such a solution because he'd want to know how to get out of one as well.

But I think Hirtius is right and it is going to be 'mundane' singing that turns the court against itself.

On the other hand. The chorae theory could be correct,

"it bounced across the grill immediately before her, clattered through a wagging grove directly toward her face, oblivion promising oblivion. A Concussion wracked the platform, and, somewhere, an anchor snapped, and the whole dropped, tilted to her left. The Chorae chipped to a halt a mere cubit from her face. She followed the fingers clasped about the emptiness of the thing and saw Sorweel, his face blodded for flayed skin, his blue eyes fluttering as he strained to focus upon her..."

It sounds like the ending of the Momemn chapter, the chorae was meant to kill Serwe, just as the Yatwerian sent chorae falling out of the  ceiling of the andiamine heights were meant for kellhus. In the WLW version of the momemn scene, Yatwer even blinks the tears-of-god into existence herself, casting them at Kellhus. Given Yatwer is having all of the Anasurimbor children killed, I imagine the appearance of the chorae is like the appearance of the stork (twice?thrice) in Ishterebinth, direct intervention of the God. What happens here is that Sorweel has rejected Yatwere, and he reaches out and catches and stops the chorae from rolling and hitting Serwa,

[locke]

Much more importantly

They did hoist Anarlû’s head high,
And poured down its blood as fire.
And the ground gave forth many sons,
Ninety nine who were as Gods,
And so bid their fathers
Be as sons…

my interpretation:

Cunoroi created the Hundred/The Gods --that's the great metaphysical whodunnit (we don't know the whydunnit yet)

And just like how the NoGod made slaves of its consult father, the Gods made slaves of their Cunoroi fathers

(where now are the dead fathers?,to quote TJE opener)

So that is why the Gods are referred to as SONS throughout the text of TGO, they are the sons of the Cunoroi. and this is why we haven't gotten creation myths of the world because its the key to the metaphysical whodunnit.

Perhaps this is also why the Nonmen seek oblivion, they're trying to hide from their mistake. and they don't want to destroy their greatest creation.

Also, Anarlû is probably the nonman name for Onkis, would be my guess. the goddess of the darkness that comes before. Her head is on a pole. hmm...

I'm guessing that Anarlu, she is the great creator of the universe. The Cunoroi hunted her down, killed her, cut off her head, and then created the 99 gods as described. The cunoroi then became the slaves, the bread, of their dread creation.

So then. Do the Consult come to exact vengeance upon the fools who condemned the universe to damnation, to exact retribution about the fools who killed the great goddess creator of the universe?

Did the Cunoroi do it because they wanted to raise up men above women. Thus SONS and FATHERS being the terminology used to describe the aftermath of their execution of Anarlu?

[Madness]

Lol. Well, I believe I can now count myself among the minority for Singing Sorcery. Too cool. I can't wait to revise my assumptions.

As per the second post - that shit is brilliant and, as per re-titling the subforum, just stuff that I can't think of myself .

H or FB will love interacting with that one.

[MSJ]

Much more importantly

They did hoist Anarlû’s head high,
And poured down its blood as fire.
And the ground gave forth many sons,
Ninety nine who were as Gods,
And so bid their fathers
Be as sons…

my interpretation:

Cunoroi created the Hundred/The Gods --that's the great metaphysical whodunnit (we don't know the whydunnit yet)

And just like how the NoGod made slaves of its consult father, the Gods made slaves of their Cunoroi fathers

(where now are the dead fathers?,to quote TJE opener)

So that is why the Gods are referred to as SONS throughout the text of TGO, they are the sons of the Cunoroi. and this is why we haven't gotten creation myths of the world because its the key to the metaphysical whodunnit.

Perhaps this is also why the Nonmen seek oblivion, they're trying to hide from their mistake. and they don't want to destroy their greatest creation.

Also, Anarlû is probably the nonman name for Onkis, would be my guess. the goddess of the darkness that comes before. Her head is on a pole. hmm...

I'm guessing that Anarlu, she is the great creator of the universe. The Cunoroi hunted her down, killed her, cut off her head, and then created the 99 gods as described. The cunoroi then became the slaves, the bread, of their dread creation.

So then. Do the Consult come to exact vengeance upon the fools who condemned the universe to damnation, to exact retribution about the fools who killed the great goddess creator of the universe?

Did the Cunoroi do it because they wanted to raise up men above women. Thus SONS and FATHERS being the terminology used to describe the aftermath of their execution of Anarlu?

That's just....just awesome, Locke. So, great to have your thoughts on the book.

I had figured and have been thinking that when I do get my ebook version delivered, that reading the boatmans songs would be my first task. I am sure there is a whole lot more to find in those tid bits.

[locke]

I was going to type out all three of the boat man's songs last night but was just too tired. That is the last one. A different one. After oinaral died

[locke]

ahem

Rage--Goddess! Sing of your flight,
From our fathers and our sons.
Away, Goddess! Secret your divinity!
From the conceit that makes kings of fools
From the scrutiny that makes corpses of souls.
Mouths open, arms thrown wide, we beseech thee:
Sing us the end of your song.

They did hoist Anarlû’s head high,
And poured down its blood as fire.
And the ground gave forth many sons,
Ninety nine who were as Gods,
And so bid their fathers
Be as sons…

[H]

I'm guessing that Anarlu, she is the great creator of the universe. The Cunoroi hunted her down, killed her, cut off her head, and then created the 99 gods as described. The cunoroi then became the slaves, the bread, of their dread creation.

An interesting follow up to this, is that if it is true, if the Nonmen actually did create the Hundred (or the 99 left), how did the Men of Eanna know of them?  Unless perhaps the Nonmen were actually in Eanna, but left soon after fracturing the God, perhaps because they had fractured the God.

[Triskele]

So fun to read everyone's thoughts.  These chapters were such a trip.  So satisfying after looking forward this entire series to seeing more of the Nonmen. 

What was up with the Clack.  Clack.  Clack?  It's probably something obvious, but I couldn't figure it out. 

[locke]

It's the chain links that pull the ship up and down clacking as they go through their mechanism

[Nil Sertrax]

Triskele,

What Locke said.  Think of the sound a winch or ratchet makes as it pulls a very heavy object.

[Garet Jax]

The "clack clack clack" reminded me of the sound a roller coaster makes right before the big drop in the beginning of a ride to build suspense before shit goes haywire. 


Due to my dislike of roller coasters, when I was reading that portion, I couldn't help but want to jump off the ride into the depths for fear of what happens during "the drop".

[Triskele]

Ah,   thanks.  That whole segment had a River Styx vibe to it.

[Hirtius/Pansa]

Was rereading TTT and came across this, the invocation of The Sagas that Esmenet reads:

Rage—Goddess! Sing of your flight,
From our Fathers and our Sons.
Away, Goddess! Secret your divinity!
From conceit that makes kings of fools,
From the scrutiny that makes corpses of souls.
Mouths open, arms thrown wide, we beseech thee:
Sing us the end of your song.

Totally reminded of locke's musings on the Nonman songs—about Anarlu/The Gnostic Goddess Sophia being sundered and fractured to create material reality, or whatever.  A coincidence?—or nah?

[Madness]

Lol - this is actually one Bakker answered in the TGO ARC Author Q&A, HP.