[Francis Buck]

ETA: I posted this here as opposed to the writing section, since the actual point is to discuss and hopefully iron-out some details about the world and metaphysics.

Tough for me, anyway.
 
I've decided to write an Earwa fanfiction while also continuing work on my novel. I've had an Earwa story brimming in my head for a while now, but a few things came to me recently that really gave me the itch to do it. My goals are to utilize several aspects of the metaphysics, without breaking any established rules, and also without interfering with the series itself. This is hard, of course, because so much of the world and metaphysics are still a mystery. Nonetheless, I think I can pull it off (the actual story itself will take place thousands of years before PON begins, and is set in a remote part of the world -- all the characters will be brand new creations).

I'm also writing it, in a way, for practice. I want to really attempt to improve my prose and characterization, which a short story like the one I'm developing should be a good channel for.

I'm rambling though. The point of this thread is that I want to ask some questions about lore, history, and metaphysics (things I'm having trouble deducing myself) because, as I said, I really want the story to work within the canonical framework of the series. So, my questions:

The story takes place at the foot of the Kayarsus mountain range, in the little nook that exists to the east of the Sea of Cerish. What time period (this will take after the Fall of the No-God, and the Ancient North should by now mostly be in shambles) should I choose that would allow for a decent amount of sranc populations -- enough that it's something to worry about. Am I correct in assuming that sranc were still pretty much all over the north, even after the No-God's demise, but they were simply disbanded and roaming around doing their own thing?

Next up: Nonman names. Do we know anything about their naming practices? Why does Cujara Cin'moi have "two" names, whil Nil'Giccas or Gin'Yursis do not?

When did the whole Siqu thing happen, and how long did it last? Were there still Siqu after the No-God was killed?

Is there any consolidated source of information on the daimos? This seems like a very vague bit of metaphysics in the story so far, and it's quite important to the story I'm gestating.

How could a sorcerer -- a powerful one (and thus one with a significant mark) -- transport a Chorae without killing himself? Could they carry it an large chest, for example, with it somehow fixed in the very center of it? I mean I could just have them dragging it around on a chain or something, but it needs to be "secure", since it's so valuable.

There are more things, but that's it for now. Any and all feedback is much appreciated. I'd also like to point out that I'm open to the idea of a collaboration if anyones interested. I've never done it before and it's something I'd like to try, and since this is, after all, just a fanfic, there's not much to worry about in regards to taking credit or whatever. It's just a fun project.

[Meyna]

You raise great questions, each of which could become the basis for lengthy discussion and speculation. I am especially interested in Nonman naming schemes, though I have no initial thoughts at the moment.

[Madness]

The story takes place at the foot of the Kayarsus mountain range, in the little nook that exists to the east of the Sea of Cerish. What time period (this will take after the Fall of the No-God, and the Ancient North should by now mostly be in shambles) should I choose that would allow for a decent amount of sranc populations -- enough that it's something to worry about. Am I correct in assuming that sranc were still pretty much all over the north, even after the No-God's demise, but they were simply disbanded and roaming around doing their own thing?

Anything that remains North of the Three-Seas save Sakarpus and Atrithau is open roaming for the creatures of the Tekne. There is Mandate conjecture in the Apocalypse entry of the Glossary, which suggests that the Mangaecca produced and used a great number of Sranc before the rise of the No-God so I'd hazard that the Yokes have historical relevancy as a unit. Sorweel also reminisces that Sakarpus has been directly under siege by Sranc tribes five times since the No-God.

So I'd hazard the Sranc would be right out there right after the Apocalypse, doing their thing where they can. Leweth suggests that Atrithau regularly repels assault and Sorweel's culture is entirely dominated by the existence of the Sranc.

Just offering you fodder as I go.

Next up: Nonman names. Do we know anything about their naming practices? Why does Cujara Cin'moi have "two" names, whil Nil'Giccas or Gin'Yursis do not?

I don't think anyone has asked Bakker that before. There is the language tree in TDTCB but all this allows you to do is discern that Nonmen languages are far older than even man's root language, which is supposed to account for both the Emwama and the Halaroi.

Probably because Cu'jara Cinmoi is epic.

When did the whole Siqu thing happen, and how long did it last? Were there still Siqu after the No-God was killed?

555 to 825, right out of the Glossary. No-God doesn't incarnate for another millenia or so - though Seswatha tells Mekeritrig that Celmomas had Mekeritrig images struck from the High White Halls. Tutelage is largely culturally relevant to the Ancient North and the Norsirai.

Is there any consolidated source of information on the daimos? This seems like a very vague bit of metaphysics in the story so far, and it's quite important to the story I'm gestating.

No? There's the ZTS quote about the Nonmen deciding not to engage with 'agencies' because of the volatility of the exercise. And there's Iyokus explicitly narrated dealings and Kellhus implicitly narrated dealings. Nonmen had Gnostic Daimos, Spires have Anagogic Daimos.

How could a sorcerer -- a powerful one (and thus one with a significant mark) -- transport a Chorae without killing himself? Could they carry it an large chest, for example, with it somehow fixed in the very center of it? I mean I could just have them dragging it around on a chain or something, but it needs to be "secure", since it's so valuable.

Well, I'm torn on this. The Mihtrul clearly excelled as the 'makers' of sorcerous artifacts but is Sorweel's bag actually a sorcerous artifact or is it instead blessed? I wish we understood the jnan of the Spires' Javreh more.

Good luck, FB.

[Francis Buck]

Thanks guys, this helped. I did not know that the Nonmen had Gnostic Daimos, and that's definitely relevant for me.

What are the Mihtrul? I'm drawing a blank on Sorweel's bag. What did it do? 

[Madness]

I'll try and find the relevant ZTS quote. It's something other than the one where Bakker writes that the Nonmen call the Gods 'agencies,' and he writes specifically about them not fucking with the Daimos after a time.

The Mihtrul School was one of the twelve ancient Gnostic Schools based in Sauglish who specialized in sorcerous artifacts.

The Goddess unearths a buried pouch for Sorweel, which contains a Chorae. When Sorweel goes to see Serwa after she saves him, she tells him the pattern on the pouch is a motif of the Anasurimbor of Tryse. However, Sorweel walks away with the certainty that she was unable to detect the Chorae within. He leaves it with Zsoronga when he leaves for Ishterebinth, tells him never to look inside, and Serwa doesn't touch the bag so no help for you there.

[locke]

I did not catch that he didn't take the chorae with him.

[Wilshire]

I did not catch that he didn't take the chorae with him.

+1.... I'm sure that will be very important later. An undetectable chorae in the midst of the Aspect Emperor

Regarding sranc:
Depending on what year it is after the fall there could be huge differences in sranc population. Consider first: distance. based on what we know, all of the sranc were drawn to Mog, not to mention that all the humans in the world where pretty much in the same place. This places all of the sranc west of 2 mountain ranges. Once they 'killed' the No-God, they sranc fled. Well how fast did they flee? That depends on how pressed they where. We saw the Ordeal push the sranc thousands of miles in a short time, but I doubt the living humans did much more than passvly hunt the sranc. It may have taken years, decades, or even a few centuries before the sranc where pushed back to the North.

Once the sranc where confortably past the edges of civilization, they then probably bred extremely quickly. They would have greatly reduced numbers for years, but with no real predators and ample food (grubs, worms, etc.) it would have been an exponential population explosion. Depending on what you want to do with your story, you could go from barely any sranc to hundreds to thousands in a time span of a few centuries.

Also recall that sranc are drawn to certain places over others. I think ancient ruins draw them in for some reason... remember those ruins that sorweel and his horny  friends end up in where someone mention to be carful because sranc are "drawn to places like this" or some such? Sorry for the vague reference, my point being that some places could be strangly empty of sranc while other places close by could be teaming with them.

You can probably do whatever you want with sranc and their numbers and there will be plenty of reasonable justifications for it.


Siqu:
Madness covered most of it. As for whether or not there were any left... probably not many. Intact Nonmen might be slightly more common close to the fall of the NG, so there might be some tutors left roaming around.


Diamos:
Nothing consolidated. Iyokus might talk a bit about it during/before his little tussle with Super Saiyan Achamian in TWP

[Francis Buck]

Cool, thanks Wilshire. The timeline is pretty fuzzy in my head, despite having been checking up on it on the wiki.

Also I completely forgot to ask one of the more important questions I had, though like the Daimos I suspect there's not much to go on, but nonetheless: Do we have any idea of just how long qirri might extend someone's life? Iyokus is what now, 120 or something? I can't remember any descriptions of him, or whether he's aged at all, in TAE. The other thing about qirri I'm vague on is how long one can go without other sustenance. The Skin Eaters seemed to go a pretty decent amount of time without food, correct?

ETA: Then again going purely off of Iyokus might be risky, since we don't yet know what chanv actually is. I actually suspect it isn't qirri, but instead sorcerer salt (but that's another topic).

[Madness]

I don't believe Qirri is Chanv, either, so I don't think Iyokus would be good at enumerating effects.

I'm also not terribly sure why everyone jumped on Chanv being Sorcerer's Salt...

And I know I've quoted Iyokus' age somewhere around here :S.

[locke]

I'm also not terribly sure why everyone jumped on Chanv being Sorcerer's Salt...

blame the monkey.

[Francis Buck]

I just think sorceror salt having some kind of effect when ingested would be an interesting piece of world-building, and kind of a cool dynamic (Iyokus literally eating his brethren, for example). It could also explain the difficulty in acquiring it, and why the true nature/source of it would be kept a secret (so people don't start killing sorcerors just for their salt, and also because a lot of people that take chanv might not be into the idea of eating a dead sorceror). Of course, those latter two points could also apply to qirri and, perhaps to a lesser extent, Sranc. In the case of Sranc though, I really feel like that's going to have some horrible, grotesque negative effect in the long run. Eating Srancflesh is just way too freaking ominous. Maybe it will almost be like crack to the Nonman's cocaine?

Remind me, whose ashes was it that Cleric had?

ETA: Another dumb question: Are sorcerers able to tell that someone is one of the Few even before they've done any actual magic? Like, how does the Mandate know which children to acquire from the Nroni, for example? Is there some kind of test? Do they have to grasp the onta first or whatever? Drawing a blank on this topic, though I feel like I remember Achamian mentioning it as some point when thinking about his childhood.

Then again as I write this I'm remembering that no one knew Kellhus was one of the Few...

[Wilshire]

I'm also not terribly sure why everyone jumped on Chanv being Sorcerer's Salt...

blame the monkey.

It just occurred to me that the ashes of nonmen and the salt sorcerers bares a striking resemblance. Maybe this is why it seems so plausible?

ETA: Another dumb question: Are sorcerers able to tell that someone is one of the Few even before they've done any actual magic? Like, how does the Mandate know which children to acquire from the Nroni, for example? Is there some kind of test? Do they have to grasp the onta first or whatever? Drawing a blank on this topic, though I feel like I remember Achamian mentioning it as some point when thinking about his childhood.

Then again as I write this I'm remembering that no one knew Kellhus was one of the Few...

Recall the scene with Maithanet and Achamian near the beginning. Akka is suprised that he knows that he is a schoolman spy (Maithanet can see the mark, but since he himself has never preformed any magic he does not bare the mark). So there is no outward change that is visible until you are bruised.

There is at least one test that we are told about. Akka mentions it when he tests Kellhus with the wathi doll. He says something along the lines of it being a test that won't mark you, and that they use it to test children for the gift.

[Francis Buck]

Ah, that's right, forgot about the Wathi doll test. I suppose theoretically another test that wouldn't mark the person could be seeing if they can "maintain" a spell, like Mimara does with the light source in Cil-Aujas.

As to the "chanva-as-salt" idea, I was wondering if perhaps qirri isn't actually special because it's a Nonman, but if it's special because it comes from a sorceror, which is why I was wondering if we know of any qirri that has come from a non-sorcerous Nonman.

[Madness]

In the case of Sranc though, I really feel like that's going to have some horrible, grotesque negative effect in the long run. Eating Srancflesh is just way too freaking ominous. Maybe it will almost be like crack to the Nonman's cocaine?

Um... Huge +1.

Remind me, whose ashes was it that Cleric had?

Cu'jara Cinmoi!

ETA: Another dumb question: Are sorcerers able to tell that someone is one of the Few even before they've done any actual magic? Like, how does the Mandate know which children to acquire from the Nroni, for example? Is there some kind of test? Do they have to grasp the onta first or whatever? Drawing a blank on this topic, though I feel like I remember Achamian mentioning it as some point when thinking about his childhood.

Then again as I write this I'm remembering that no one knew Kellhus was one of the Few...

Recall the scene with Maithanet and Achamian near the beginning. Akka is suprised that he knows that he is a schoolman spy (Maithanet can see the mark, but since he himself has never preformed any magic he does not bare the mark). So there is no outward change that is visible until you are bruised.

There is at least one test that we are told about. Akka mentions it when he tests Kellhus with the wathi doll. He says something along the lines of it being a test that won't mark you, and that they use it to test children for the gift.

Mimara is able to hold Achamian's Surillic Point in Cil-Aujas without being Marked, as well. FB mentioned this above.

In answer to your question, FB, I don't think there is a definitive way for the Few to recognize the non-Marked Few. I'm sure all the sorcerous Schools have developed a battery of tests they administer to those they would recruit. And, of course, Achamian apparently knew enough about the Few's perspective to know, immediately, that he was of them. So that information enjoys dissemination.

It just occurred to me that the ashes of nonmen and the salt sorcerers bares a striking resemblance. Maybe this is why it seems so plausible?

Hm... not so much, friend, not to this guy.

As to the "chanva-as-salt" idea, I was wondering if perhaps qirri isn't actually special because it's a Nonman, but if it's special because it comes from a sorceror, which is why I was wondering if we know of any qirri that has come from a non-sorcerous Nonman.

Well, Curethan has a seemingly sound dissociation that either Nin'janjin or Cu'jara Cinmoi weren't of the Few.

[Wilshire]

Well, Curethan has a seemingly sound dissociation that either Nin'janjin or Cu'jara Cinmoi weren't of the Few.

Where?