[Wilshire]

If anything, if it was nonman, the last thing they would find would be aporetic runes.

As for the runes themselves, I see no real reason for them, regardless of who built the place.

The Vizer was sorcerous and lived there, could be that he was bored or just studying sorcery for some reason or another. Either way, there were text about sorcery and/or magic, and runes etched into surfaces, so someone had some interest in the subject.

[H]

I guess I am just not of the mind that anyone would spend the time carving sorcerous runes flippantly onto the walls of a hold-fast.

What says, to me, that the 'writing' on a Chorae is always described as runes.  However, so is Kûniüri, but there is something else.  If the runes were there to place Wards, wouldn't that make Ishuäl highly noticeable to any member of the Few?  I wonder if Aporetic runes would be so noticeable.

Grasping at straws though really, all I think is "conslusive" is that there is a strong connection between Nonmen and Ishuäl.

[Wilshire]

I'm not sure how marked objects look. Could be that the mark only go so far as to the edge of the protected/ensorcered thing. Meaning that a think enough wall, or a double wall, where only the inner part was protected, could easily be hidden from view. I dont think the mark is visible and/or sense-able through objects like the chorae are. That said, my guess is that either would give away ishual in some way. Non-aporetic would be visible to some extent, while aporetic wouldn't be visible but it may still be 'felt' like the chorae.

[H]

Indeed, the runes fail to make too much logical sense from what we know.  There must be more to it.

It seems to me that the idea of the Dûnyain simply stumbling upon Ishuäl seems really improbable.  That would make the whole chain of subsequent events total happenstance.

I guess I am seeing that quote as it being fortutious that they found an Anasûrimbor alive, not that they found Ishuäl.

Guesses and guesses of guesses, forever...

[mrganondorf]

@ Seokti - love the idea of Dunyain tekne!  it makes me wonder … the inchoroi in their present form seem to be a somewhat ruined version of whatever their peak was.  i wonder if Bakker is going to get around to a similar ruined version of Dunyain mentality?

the Dunyain maximize their brains while the Inchoroi rely on huge clam brains grafted on (presumably with a beef neck to boot)

@ H - awesome thoughts about Ishual and being fortunate for finding an *Anasurimbor!*

i remember reading somewhere that the 1000 temples forbid planting a tree on a burial plot.  makes me wonder if the Mop is the product of a great slaughter from the 1st apocalypse

if Ishual is a crypt of nonwomen, then we can bet on Akka reading text to tell us the story and Mimara having a vision of suffering like she did in the slave pits -- the revelation of new facts concerning the womb plague!

'vault' also makes me wonder if Ishual is the nonman version of the Coffers--great and forgotten treasure buried deep!

Wouldn't choric script interfer with Moe's dream texts?

[locke]

Re Choric script.
Not if moe was inside the frame writ by the Choric script, inside the barricades so to speak.  Alternatively, not if kellhus never had dreams, his whelming just included to post hypnotic suggestion he'd had dreams and the accompanying stories he believes were all just part of his whelming before being released.  Kellhus didn't have to have dreams, he just had to believe he'd had dreams.


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[Blackstone]

I know this is an older thread, but I had some thoughts on my last re-read of the books. It seems to me that the Dunyain happening upon Ishual is something of a coincidence, but I think that's what it is. We get lots of other coincidences in the early part of the first book.
I see the Dunyain as something of a cult of philosophers who end up running a eugenics experiment that breeds blue eyed, blonde haired supermen...wait.

That being said, I've noticed that there is no mention of modern Dunyain women. All of the training that takes place in Kellhus's flashbacks include only men. Makes me wonder what is up with the women. Perhaps they are kept in crazy breeding rooms in the Thousand Thousand Halls and only let out for holidays.

[Wilshire]

Where have all the Ent Wives gone?

The inchoroi women, nonmen-women, and dunyain women, are notably omissions in our picture of Earwa. Considering Dune and its impact on the series

(click to show/hide)

something similar to axolotl tanks has been suggested for inchoroi/dunyain

Or, maybe the Dunyain reproduce a-sexually and have no need for women?