[mrganondorf]

Thinking about Gilgaol, I wonder if Kellhus can use the meta-gnosis-daimos to force Gilgaol to inhabit every member of the Great Ordeal.  Make every warrior like Cnaiur in Joktha, make every light-spitter like Akka in Iothiah.

Really looking forward to some Gilgaol--as unhappy as Yatwer maybe with Kellhus, Gilgaol might like all the conflict he produces.

[geoint]

Wilshire - Any theories on why Kellhus would be behind Meppa?  That's the hangup for me.  I don't know what the goal would be.

We don't have a ton of evidence, but wouldn't the Cishaurim be feared and hated in the New Empire?

Well my personal favorite crackpot is that Meppa is Moenghus' doing, but since you asked lets see...

Why would Kellhus be behind Meppa?
Kellhus obviously knew, or knew there was a good chance, that the empire was going to fall when he left. He took pretty much every able bodied man to the North, leaving a huge power vacuum. He was never able to catch Fanyal, so he was likely so swoop in when the powers that be were all elsewhere. We know that Kellhus can erase memories via the Whelming, maybe he doesn't so much erase them, but covers them up so that they are inaccessible to their owner.

So given all of that, Kellhus knew that Fanyal would leap at the opportunity to have a powerful ally - especially one that was a symbol of his peoples' former glory. Kellhus figured out how to teach the water-baring technique to one of his blind disciples (or blinded one of them and then taught them, whatever). He then erased this person's memories, and sent them off to find his enemies.
After Meppa, almost single-handily, takes over the empire, Kellhus can come back and give him his memories back (or maybe some trigger was placed in his mind so that once something specific happens his memories flood back). At the end of the day, only the face of the ruler changed,. Fanayal will be ousted as the face of destruction, but Meppa will be spared since he was basically under Kellhus' orders.


Uh so why go through all this? Kellhus couldn't find or stop the bandit for whatever reason. Maybe he wants him to take over his empire while he is away. Could be that he wanted to know if he was being helped by one of the Hundred, so he couldn't send a regular spy. He needed someone who looked like an enemy to the Aspect-Emperor, even to 'divine' scrutiny. What better person then the last scion of a cult he personally destroyed? To all the world and the Outside Meppa looks normal, but to Kellhus he is simply another set of 'eyes'.
Also, Kellhus is pretty sure he killed all the Cish, but how sure is he? Meppa could be a beacon for any wayward Psukari, and once they are all gathered, they can all be destroyed.


...
Any questions? lol.

my mind is totally blown right now. 

Is it ever mentioned that kellhus taught somebody the psuke?

[mrganondorf]

Oh yeah, rereading that was fun.  Wilshire, you out did yourself!  I love the implication: Kellhus knew the Empire would break up in his absence, so he seized the circumstance and figured out a way to win the second round of the Unification Wars.

I am hoping that Kelmomas will save us all as Meppa's disciple.

@ geoint, I don't think that's every mentioned, but Kellhus is so badass, who knows...

Surely it is no coincidence that Meppa takes the stage around the time Kellhus is moving out of easier warping range (if he actually does having warping limits).

In the end, I think the subject of "Kellhus' Limits" will have little to do with brute power and everything to do with the limits of what he will and won't do based on his upbringing and molding circumstances since he went south.

[Wilshire]

Haha I'm glad I could provide some entertainment . Coming up with plausible reasoning for other's theories is at least entertaining for me. Pretty sure I just wrote that on the fly, words from brain to keyboard without much thinking in between .

Yeah the limits of his power/influence is more important in regards to when is is not present. Also, the bett/bigger/more-powerful that Kellhus is will make me wonder about Moenghus and his downfall.

Its also a question of the limits of the dunyain as a whole.

[geoint]

I want to see more crazy theories in this thread damnit! 

[Wilshire]

Content creates more content. Line something up for me like Triskele did .

[mrganondorf]

instead of opposing shauriatas, kellhus with fuse with him and become double no-god

[Francis Buck]

I like that theory Wilshire, I think that it's likely hitting on a lot of truth, particularly Kellhus using Meppa as a pawn (even if he didn't personally train/condition him, I do think that he certainly knew what was going to happen to some degree, I.E. it's all part of the plan).

One thing I'm unclear on: where in the text does it say that Whelming can erase memories? Just curious, I'm actually pretty vague on the whole Whelming thing in general. Is there a good section to read that details it?

[themerchant]

I like that theory Wilshire, I think that it's likely hitting on a lot of truth, particularly Kellhus using Meppa as a pawn (even if he didn't personally train/condition him, I do think that he certainly knew what was going to happen to some degree, I.E. it's all part of the plan).

One thing I'm unclear on: where in the text does it say that Whelming can erase memories? Just curious, I'm actually pretty vague on the whole Whelming thing in general. Is there a good section to read that details it?

After the Attack on Serwe which Cnaiur interrupts (TWP) Kellhus erases her memories of the attack after questioning her. It's in the Warrior Prophet after Cnaiur stabs Not-kellhus, after he fled the battlefield.

[Wilshire]

Yeah I think thats the first occurrence, and I believe he does it again (again referred to as Whelming) in TTT after Esmi is possessed by Aurang. After he quickly learns all he can from the encounter I think he erases her memories of the encounter... I'm less confident about that second one, but I know for sure the TWP scene is in there.

Is it ever mentioned that kellhus taught somebody the psuke?

Sorry I missed this a while back. No, I don't believe there is any mention that Kellhus taught anyone the Psuke or can even use it himself.

[mrganondorf]

if being Dunyain is really no disadvantage to 'holding water' imagine what a Dunyain armed with psukhe, whelming, and neuropuncture could do!  rewrite a whole goddamn person that's what...

[Wilshire]

Not sure how neuropuncture  or whelming would help. I'm not convinced that brain/memory manipulation would help the wield of the Psuke in any way, especial if "being a dunyain is really no disadvantage", since the difference is mostly in the mind to begin with.

[mrganondorf]

Not sure how neuropuncture  or whelming would help. I'm not convinced that brain/memory manipulation would help the wield of the Psuke in any way, especial if "being a dunyain is really no disadvantage", since the difference is mostly in the mind to begin with.

i mean if Moe has the psukhe and is not truly disabled in using it, then he can use that + neuropuncture/whelming to rewrite others in more profound ways than we've even see Kellhus do

like he could rewrite a Dunyain and keep that Dunyain in complete ignorance