Kelmomas' voice

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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2013, 11:51:37 pm »
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
I think it is Samarma's soul trasferred to him after their spiritual seperation when they were babies.Although i agree that Ajokli's interference is intriguing as a theory.
Kelmomas is an interesting character, reminds me of Leto II from Dune although in a more disturbing way naturally.His role in UC is a big enigma to me,he is probably going to create more havoc but to what end?Even the WLW doesn't seem to anticipate the little freak.

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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2013, 11:51:44 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
Even the WLW doesn't seem to anticipate the little freak.

Huh. A threat the Gods are blind to.

 :o

No, just crackpot stuff. Can't be the case.

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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2013, 11:51:51 pm »
Quote from: Borque
There is an interesting thing in the omitted TTT Glossary entry referenced by lockesnow in this  thread (link):

Quote
820 - The Rape of Omindalea. Jiricet, a Nonman
Siqū to the God-King Nincarū-Telesser II
(787-828), rapes Omindalea (808-825), first
daughter of Sanna-Neorjė (772-858) of the
house of Anasūrimbor in 824, and then flees
to Ishterebinth. When Nil’giccas refuses to
return Jiricet to Ūmerau, Nicarū-Telesser II
expels all Nonmen from the Ūmeri Empire.
Omindalea conceives by the union and dies
bearing Anasūrimbor Sanna-Jephera (825-
1032), called ‘Twoheart.’ After a house-slave
conceives by him, Sanna-Jephera is adopted
by Sanna-Neorjė as his heir.
- The cuneiform script and the syllabaries of
the Nonmen are outlawed and replaced with a
consonantal alphabet, c.835.

My bold.

I find the nick 'Twoheart'  extremely interesting. I believe it's a reference to Sanna-Jephera having two personalities/souls, like Kel/Sam. If so, having double souls could be a hereditary trait within the Anasūrimbor family from that point, surfacing now and then (when they have twins?). Could have been a twin thing here too, from the limited information we have, Sanna-Jephera very well could have had a twin sibling who died at some point.

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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2013, 11:51:58 pm »
Quote from: lockesnow
I thought the same thing when I reposted it.

Could point to how the crossbreeding succeeded, for whatever reason the body was ensouled with both a man and nonman soul.

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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2013, 11:52:06 pm »
Quote from: Transcendiot
Kelmomas is an incarnation of Ajokli. That, or Sam was/is. Most likely: both together are. An embodiment of Ajokli may HAVE to have two souls, since it would take two conjoined souls to create the wickedness and inner-interplay we've seen in Kel. I mean, when he's talking to his older brother, the insinuation is that he IS Ajokli in a way - an incarnation, not just being used by him.

So, just like Kellhus is an incarnation of the Godhead (Krishna), Kel & Sam are an incarnation of Ajokli.
Of course, in any case, whether Ajokli knows it or not both Kel and Ajokli are agents for Kellhus and God respectively. Even the earth goddess will turn out to be an unwitting agent of the full Godhead, whether Kellhus is a real embodiment or not. But, I tend to think both he and little Kel are at least pseudo-embodiments. One Full Godhead or Kellhus, another just a piece of Godhead or Kellhus.

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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2013, 11:52:14 pm »
Quote from: Borric
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Mog Kellhus
Even the WLW doesn't seem to anticipate the little freak.

Huh. A threat the Gods are blind to.

 :o

No, just crackpot stuff. Can't be the case.

was it not the case, that Ajokli could see what the other gods could not? (the No-God).

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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2013, 11:52:22 pm »
Quote from: Madness
I think Sharmat was using that to support his theory that Kelmomas is Ajolki's Avatar - something I support for different reasons. Clearly, Kelmomas has a role to play in the events of TUC. Maithanet managed to warn Esmenet to a degree, whether she believes him or not, as the Shriah apparently knew his nephew was hiding in the Labyrinth. Kelmomas is another Inrilatas, or worse. Esmenet suffers from a history of denial.

...

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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2013, 11:52:29 pm »
Quote from: Borric
Yup, I was just offering more ammunition.

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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2013, 11:52:34 pm »
Quote from: The Sharmat
Quote from: Madness
I think Sharmat was using that to support his theory that Kelmomas is Ajolki's Avatar - something I support for different reasons. Clearly, Kelmomas has a role to play in the events of TUC. Maithanet managed to warn Esmenet to a degree, whether she believes him or not, as the Shriah apparently knew his nephew was hiding in the Labyrinth. Kelmomas is another Inrilatas, or worse. Esmenet suffers from a history of denial.

...
I never said I thought Kelmomas is Ajokli's avatar, nor is it my theory. That bit of crackpot that was jokingly posted was me suggesting that Kelmomas is somehow or will be the No-God.

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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2013, 11:52:41 pm »
Quote from: Madness
Apologies. Communication issues. I used my terms in understanding your post, if I was even paraphrasing correctly from you. I just meant that perhaps you were suggesting that Kelmomas was representing one of the Gods - I thought you had mentioned Ajolki. I simply use Avatar in my posts and musings concerning the concept of "representing the gods" or their mortal agents, etc.

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« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2013, 09:24:38 pm »
Hello, not really sure where to put this, but hopefully here is relevant and it hasn't been discussed already, i personally haven't seen it so apologies if it has been spotted before.

OK the assumptions i've made with this "theory" are.

1.The Anasurimbor line has Nonman blood in it.
2. Anasurimbor burn their dead (as evidenced it seems from the view we had at the poisoning of Cel)

From TTT Orbit (UK Paperback) page 208

When Esme starts reading the Sagas, a description of the Birth of Celemonas and the still birth of his twin.

"Huormomas, the poet insisted, ever stalked his brother's side, chilling his heart even as he quickened his intellect"

"Chilling his heart and quickening his intellect"

Wouldn't that be a description of what Quirri does? Or indeed chanv maybe even better so?

they probably would have burned the stillborn were the ashes in a pouch at Celemonas side? CC's ashes are still kicking (or were) thousands of years later and have Skin eaters all taking some each night for quite a period of time.

Anyway just noticed that on a re-read back, not sure of it's relevance or if anyone else has seen it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 09:43:16 pm by themerchant »

Wilshire

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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2013, 09:35:08 pm »
That is certainly an interesting note. It does seem to support the Anasurimbor/nonman blood theory.

Also, welcome to TSA.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2013, 04:26:09 pm »
There is Chanv and quiri.

Here's fine, though. Welcome to the Second Apocalypse, merchant.

It's certainly an interesting idea and seems well founded for a Nerdanel ;).

Chanv specifically causes a loss of skin pigment so I think your hypotheses would support Qirri.

Perhaps, I'll have to move some of these posts later as I'm about veer sharply off topic:

Why do the Nonmen only burn their greatest? Is it simply for the Qirri?
The Existential Scream
Weaponizing the Warrior Pose - Declare War Inwardly
carnificibus: multus sanguis fluit
Die Better
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2014, 12:53:04 am »
Strange--when I read the title for this thread, I thought it would be about Kelmomas' ability to see the onta.  Now that I see it's all about the inner dialogue, I can't help but wonder if the two are related.  Since all magic hinges on souls, and Kelmomas has perhaps some other soul kicking around inside, does this make him better at sorcery?  I know there is something about the Anasurimbor children having two souls, but the other kids don't seem to act like Kelmomas---in what sense do they have two souls but are not like him?

Makes me wonder about the difference between Kelmomas and um, his sister, forgetting name, swayali witch queen--she was identified early, but Kelmomas has maybe avoided it???  Or Kellhus is keeping him for some other purpose?

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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2014, 01:15:39 am »
Well if adding innuterals makes the magic better, it might help to have another soul using another 2 or 3 while the physical caster is using the utteral and another 1 or 2 inutterals.
One of the other conditions of possibility.